Attendees:
Suzanne Moase
Christine Girardi
Laura Martin
Cal
Janet O’Riley
Margaret Mingle
Rosemary Bowen
Mark Newman
00:00:00
Suzanne Moase: Alright, so all first-timers except for John. John has been to a couple with us, so it’s really, really, simple. We're not here to give information although your requests for to do a little bit of research happy to do that if you give it to me or I'll give you my phone number my card you can call me and we'll set you up we have a bit of a research team at the Museum and we always offer one hour free research. If you have a house or property that you're curious about we will see what we can find and I think Laura said the same thing so the project is really simple the library reached out to us at the Museum a little bit because I've had some experience with some oral histories and what we've chosen to do with that information the library reached out to us when they were putting together a 150 project and said we want to do something where we reach out to the community and start to capture some of their stories and some of their memories. Um, and also the feedback that the library had been getting over the years is always that their visitors want to see more old photos so they sort of took those two ideas and created this project! So the project is really simple they created the old photos in large sizes…have you seen them around at all we have a big one hanging in the museum where I'm from so they've created these photographs in multiple sizes depending on which shop window it's going in and hung it there for people to see what that building used to look like. The library collection of photos is really quite extensive so they were able to do that the idea is that it would prompt people to come and talk about that building or other buildings and stories that they remember that surround that building or that area so really like I said they just asked the museum to come on board and help facilitate some of the conversation and discussion so that's all we do we just look at pictures I don’t know how, I didn't count how many we got today I like to keep it all under an hour I find that as soon as we all start to hit that one hour mark it gets to be a bit much but it also depends how much we talk and how much we remember, so maybe we'll be done in 30 minutes we'll just see how it all goes so it's really simple the first two photos actually speak to the same idea Bright’s wine so that one and then if you go to the oh we lost, can you do it that's also a Bright’s wine photo I don't know if that building in that area means anything to you guys can you see go back to the other one for me Laura okay a little different than what we've done in the past because these have been what we have shown before and it has a little blurb on it so Christine is going to read the blurb and then that will help you get a sort of sort of located where these buildings and shops are …
Christine Girardi: OK, here we go. Bright’s Wines, established in 1874 the Niagara Falls Wine Company moved to Dorchester Road in 1890 in this 1957 photo workers are unloading boxes of grapes for processing a new facility near the original location was built in the 1990s which now houses Arterra Wines Canada administrative offices and a Wine Rack Outlet Store.
Suzanne: Anybody familiar with that building where it was what it was?
Cal: We've all driven by it for 100 years (laughter)
Suzanne: Do you remember it then or do you think about it now because I know where it is now in my mind I have an idea so when you think about that spot did you know anybody that ever works there
John Harkness: Oh well, lots of people worked at Bright’s Wines.
Suzanne: Yes.
Mark Newman: Um, I used to cut the lawn of the vice president of Bright’s Wines.
Suzanne: Did you?
Mark: He was the grandfather of a good friend of mine, George Mauers who named a Transit terminal after him which I think you've torn down since.
Suzanne: Where was his house?
Mark: Well, he lived in Rolling Acres since he was the vice president so they were doing very well, but and there's always lots of Bright’s I remember Bright’s champagne. Thats what was a big one and that was this is long before the big galley of wineries in the Niagara area Probably before they even changed the grapes to.
Suzanne: Yeah, I think you'd be right on that.
Janet O’Riley: Yeah, I was going to say I think my father used to supply fruit there too.
Mark: You see they had the old Concorde grapes there and then, I forget when it was but they ripped out all of them and planted the same kind grapes grow in Italy and France so.
Margaret Mingle: Is this the room? Is this the room?
Suzanne: Hi Margaret, yes, we’ve already started.
Margaret: Oh, ok.
Suzanne: Just a little form I need you to fill out before you find yourself a seat.
Christine: We can get it afterwards, but you can't leave until you Give it back to us okay you promise at the end and there's some seats right over there the form is just because we're recording all the information that word Gathering today to use as an oral history project there's some seats right over there.
(chatter)
Suzanne: Yeah so you have to be willing to sign the form in order to participate.
Laura Martin: I've got you right around they’ve little chairs I've got you right there.
John: … he sat at the. George Mauers.
Suzanne: George’s Son was that the owner that Mark was talking about?
Mark: No that was vice president.
John: Oh, sorry he has the gas station the big one on the corner of Highland I think and Lundy's Lane he has the big one the gas station and someone didn't do what George wanted to do and he was interested in cars and he took an apprenticeship and he owns that one.
Suzanne: So then lots of people works there over the years that was common that you'd know somebody or a neighbour that worked at Bright's.
Mark: A lot of students had summer jobs there too …
Suzanne: Summer jobs that makes good sense and do we remember anything about when it left when it stopped producing did that cause any hardships or major transitions that you can think of we're talking about Bright’s Wines ladies who just joined us …
Margaret Mingle: I think it was um, a huge I spent my life in Stamford and anywhere at least 40 some-odd years and I found it to be like there's this huge empty hole that nobody could figure out what that was even though they couldn't stand Bright’s wines it was really the only thing in Niagara Falls the others were so fly-by-night and they were really crap wines too, nobody was doing, making good wines until recently decades. I'm going back several decades but the idea that its longevity has been there since way back a long time one of the oldest manufacturers in the community it was kind of a staple and people had worked there for many decades at various levels of the echelon and it seemed as though in the community of Stamford to me it just and everyone that I had spoken to during those years said it was like a great big hole now mind you that's been filled in because look at the wine industry we have on us nowadays …
Suzanne: Ya at somebody that didn't grow up here and Niagara I certainly remember Bright’s wines so you didn't have to be local to know Bright’s wines firstly and especially, someone, what did you mention somebody mentioned sparkling or the…
Cal: When I was a child boy Chateauguay Wines which subsequently was taken over by Bright’s, Bright’s was subsequently taken over well Chateauguay became Canadian Wineries and a couple other names and then bright and then Bright’s I believe was taken over by the conglomerate that included Inniskillin and I think it's part of constellation now.
Christine: That sounds about right for the latter part.
John: Well constellation is all around the world now.
Cal: Yes, that's right constellation is international now.
Suzanne: Yeah, it is.
Cal: but they did get out as the gentleman was saying they had concord grapes which we all love to eat but when I cut the grapes in the vineyard I'm sure I ate twice as many as I put in the boxes.
Margaret: Wouldn't surprise me I would have done that (laughter)
Cal: They were good for everything except wine.
Mark: Yeah, they were good for grape juice but not wine that's why they took them all out and put the other ones in.
Margaret: My mother and my grandmother both used to by the concord grapes and make homemade grape juice no intent at wine they were Methodist's they didn't drink wine but it was great grape juice and my mother would parse it out sparingly you know we have permission to go down to the basement and get a bottle and open it up it had to be a special occasion one of the things I remember not only it was started by a single individual in those early days and it wasn't just wine there was a grape juice Department too which is part of the same family, but in a different location I think it was down closer to the curve of Stanley I can't remember exactly it was so long ago but they were renowned for that as well.
Suzanne: Great. Well, that's off to a good start everybody I think the next picture was Bright’s as well it was just the same thing we were talking about did anybody ever drink the wine I know you were saying it was terrible but…
Mark: Well, it was cheap and cheerful the champagne was I mean the champagne everyone bought Bright’s wine champagne at New Year's because it was Fizzy and..
00:10:00
Margaret: My parents would buy things like Cherry and Port nobody wanted to drink that kind of junk but that's all you could get around this area but in my youth, I mean when I became an adult wine wasn't too bad and certainly I would always by Bright’s over another brand, but we didn't have all the…
Mark: That's before VQA as well …
Margaret: And there weren't the number of wineries there are today, but so it wasn't too bad I liked their white wine in particular I didn't care for the red wine anyway.
Suzanne: I remember the bubbles.
Rosemary Bowen: So, these are the trucks that served Bright’s Wines?
Suzanne: We don't know that for sure, but I think that you can make some pretty good assumptions of the one at least in the back it looks like a working kind of.
Margaret: So this would have been 1930s, right?
Suzanne: That's what I would have guessed, hard to tell exactly.
Margaret: They might have been bringing grapes in they might have been hauling in their own grapes to the factory.
Suzanne: I'd love to know who those people are (laughter) alright, good thanks. What’s next?
Christine: Beaver Lumber.
Everyone: Oh yes.
Margaret: Oh, I have a story about Beaver Lumber.
Suzanne: Okay, let's just let Christine read the, the, description first.
Christine: I have a little description here Beaver Lumber has a long history in Niagara Falls dating back to the early 1940s in July 1977 a fire destroyed the building the business was quickly rebuilt and remained in business until they closed in 1982 today Delta Bingo and gaming are located at this site.
Margaret: I have a family story…
Suzanne: Sure.
Margaret: My father's sister married one of the partners of Reid Brothers Lumber they were the forerunners of beaver Lumber so that would have been in the very early part of the 20th century maybe even late last century there were at least four Reid Brothers R.E.I.D that actually my father's relatives the women married them I think the fact that they were making a lot of money might have been the reason anyway, so I had various aunts and my father's cousin to also we're married to one of the Reid Brothers. They didn't seem to have long lives um, when my aunt who was born in 1895 – 97. Something like that she was a young woman when she married her husband who was a widower and he was many years older than she …
Rosemary: I didn’t show here much did you?
Mark: Well it was a local lumber yard.
Cal: I had the impression Beaver Lumber was on 4th Avenue
Mark: No, Drummond Road on Drummond Road by the railroad tracks right now.
Margaret: But, anyway they had a lovely house on Victoria Avenue just a few doors from Heatherington’s’ and the house was … eventually my aunt eventually sold she had been a widower for a few years and her three children had gone up and gone onto University so she sold that house to Dr. Minnis who had his practice in that house right across from Dobbies. Well you might not know that Dobbies was there right across the road but she was a very good friend of the Dobbies that’s the flower people okay.
Rosemary: How long did you say that this Beaver Lumber was there?
Suzanne: Let's see if we can give us those dates again the fire it was rebuilt after the fire not until the 80s.
Rosemary: And then it was closed …
Suzanne: After the, yeah, it was rebuilt after the fire, but then it closed and it's now the Bingo Hall.
Rosemary: Do you know the reason why it closed?
Suzanne: I don't know the reason why it closed does anybody know?
Mark: Well it was a franchise cuz they had Beaver Lumbers in Hamilton to I just think the company just probably went out of business as companies do after a long time …
Suzanne: Yeah, the Beaver where I grew up is no longer there.
Mark: Cuz that was like the Home Depot of the day except it was mostly Lumber and I remember I …
Suzanne: And they all looked the same.
Rosemary: Did they?
Suzanne: Yeah, every town you went too they had the same long sprawling a frame shape
Rosemary: Really?
Margaret: Well, there was a huge Lumber Company out in Stamford on, on, Portage Road near the Delphi restaurant - it's not called Delphi anymore and I think that was almost the that sort of took up where Beaver Lumber left off.
Suzanne: Yeah there seems to of I think Mark’s right the company just kind of folded.
Margaret: Originally, it was…
John: Right afterwards…
Margaret: The company was originally founded by Reid Brothers and that was more than 100 years ago.
Suzanne: Right.
Christine: Um, I think John has something to say.
John: Right, after it reopened then…. On Sundays, Saturday, Sundays, you… what do you call that? You went in and there were these stalls.
Unknown speaker: Like a flea market?
Mark: Yeah there was a flea market in there too before.
Unknown speaker: Yeah in the parking lot.
Mark: No it was inside as well.
Unknown speaker: Oh inside.
John: Yeah it was inside as well.
Mark: It was before the bingo.
John: And it was on Saturday Sunday on weekends before the bingo there was a few things in little things that went 2 or 3 maybe a week or two and then it went into the bingo hall.
Suzanne: So does anybody remember anybody that was there in its hey-day sort of in those 70s?
Cal: I remember they screwed up an order …
Suzanne: Do you?
Cal: I worked for a hotel builder well it's the big hotel that oversees right over the falls at the present I can't remember its name but he sent me as of 14 year old boy with no license to drive a half ton truck down to pick up a couple of bags of cement and I picked up the wrong bags of cement which infuriated him and it kind of upset me too and the problem was that the lumber company closed at 5 and I couldn't get back to change it but I managed to do it, it, just took a lot of talk.
Suzanne: So did they make the mistake with the order or did you make the mistake with the order?
Cal: I can't remember that was ages ago and if I did I wouldn't want to tell you (laughter)
Suzanne: Well it's a pretty recognizable or identifiable shape and, and, you can see the bingo hall without almost even trying can't you. All right very good what do we go to next?
Christine: We've got the Monroe House.
Suzanne: The one on Thorold Stone oh dear this is not a very good photo well read it and it’ll tell us where.
Christine: Beginning in 1870 Generations of the Monroe Family farmed the tender fruit land at the corner of Dorchester and Thorold Stone Road many city streets including Alberta, Longhurst and Crawford were named after the varieties of Monroe peaches eventually the farm property was sold for a housing project in the Monroe Plaza the family relocated their historic house to Freeman Street where it still stands today. So yeah, Thorold stone Road.
John: They didn’t relocated to Freeman when they went to move it the company that was hired to move it when I tried to move with the addition on, it had to put an addition through the years, on they tried to move the whole thing they got to a corner and tried to turn and I got stuck because of the overhead wires so they just left it and the guy who was moving it um, he brought equipment of his own, and they cut it in two and they move the one section on over to Freeman Street and they did a real nice job of restoring it and the other piece, I forget where it is now but that was one of the oldest it had been in the family and that was the oldest family still in a farm from the 1700s.
Margaret: I remember the human cry when there were rumors that the building was going to be torn down before the decision was made to move it finally and it was everybody was just up in arms in the community not just Stamford and it was like you cannot take care of this house down it's nice to see that kind of enthusiasm unfortunately the house went but was at least restored and moved.
Rosemary: What town what is the area of Stamford how far does it go south and north east?
Margaret: It's not in a straight line so you would need a map for somebody to show you (laughter)
Rosemary: Well I know the streets because I lived here all my life, but how far did it go down .. oh okay.
Cal: It went as far north as the Town Line Road that goes up beside Bevan Heights
Rosemary: Oh, ok. Yes, I know where that is.
Cal: And uh, and Stanley that’s kind of an East boundary the southern boundary from what I think about as far as…
Margaret: Queen E, Lundy’s Lane.
Cal: No past Lundy's Lane.
Margaret: Well in some parts in some parts it didn't go past Lundy's Lane.
Cal: No, it didn’t, no.
Margaret: So that's where you got a very skewed line.
John: The street across from the hospital was the dividing line because we lived on the Stamford side.
Rosemary: Right.
00:20:00
John: We had an apartment on the Stamford side, our first apartment and that's where the Lane went down.
Rosemary: Oh ok, that’s right.
Margaret: But the thing is you didn't have a straight line it was like this so you can't say one particular road on the south side is the line because it moved around so much and over time it changed.
John: But, that street the one across from the hospital.
Margaret: North Street are you talking North Street or Kitchener or are you talking Main.
Mark: Portage?
John: No one street closer than that.
Margaret: Or Stanley …
John: No neither I'm trying to think of a name there I know it well the street next to the …
Suzanne: It will come to you John …
John: The street just across from the hospital the front of the hospital…
Cal: Well the front was Portage wasn't it?
Suzanne: Yes and …
Margaret: Well one side is north and the other is Prospect or Kitchener.
Rosemary: North Street, Prospect street… there you go.
John: Prospect Street sorry right up the little Prospect Street.
Margaret: But you see the line kept moving around I knew people who worked or lived in the Pine Grove Avenue area they couldn't go to Stamford even though they lived closer to Stamford, but they had to go down to see I and that was not uncommon.
Suzanne: It's so common today that's just the way that it is.
Rosemary: So what's the next picture?
Suzanne: This one was at Dorchester and Thorold Stone right?
Rosemary: That's right.
Suzanne: Does anybody remember those peaches they talked about the name of the peaches?
Rosemary: Well they sold peaches out of their barn.
Mark: Oh, they had a big Fruit Stand.
Rosemary: That's right they had a big Fruit Stand!
Mark: That was a landmark for the longest time and that was almost the I guess it would be the western urban boundary between once you got past that moving West it was just Farmland it was open space it was like almost no homes except the odd farmhouse.
Suzanne: So the farm stand would have had more than peaches then?
Mark: Yeah, they had lots of stuff add pumpkins bed pumpkins in the fall and you'll see it all sitting out there in a great big yeah, great big, ya.
Suzanne: And everybody just think of it or refer to it as Monroe’s?
Everyone: Yup, ya, ya.
Margaret: They were very well known.
Cal: There is a living Monroe direct descendant of that Monroe family who was patriarch more or less was Pat Monroe who was well known in the Stamford volunteer firemen's works at Cyanamid, but the granddaughter or great-granddaughter is still living in Downtown Niagara Falls her name is Patty Monroe.
John: Well the house on Thorold Stone Road and across on the Dorchester side you know the big the corner is all owned by Hydro the lady who works in that house I talked to her years ago and since then her brother he was a guy’s husband Monroe was the brother and he went and he volunteered he was in the Army so when he came back they thought he would still be a partner, but the two brothers living on the farm said no way funny left during the war he wasn't here and then they so changed.
Rosemary: Oh that's a sad story.
Margaret: But when I was growing up downtown on Valley Way at 4th Avenue um, the swimming pool was just that was the end of the world everything beyond that was Farms, pasture country okay - I'm dating myself now and so that would be up to Stanley before you get to Stanley going west okay anything on the other side of Stanley was all Stamford it wasn't part of Niagara Falls anymore and as time passed this profile of Stamford just kept drinking and drinking and shrinking as subdivisions were being built during the 40’s, 50’s, 60’s, etc.
Suzanne: Yep pretty common story around Ontario's history. Okay I was afraid of other photo was cut off a little bit at the bottom.
Laura: I know what's going on with these.
Suzanne: So … (mumbling)
Margaret: Is that a body of water under there?
Rosemary: It's the river isn't it?
Christine: Okay so here, I’ll read the…
Suzanne: So as a back-up plan we do have them we can just pass them around is the next one going to work by any chance?
Laura: I don't know it's a PowerPoint right so it's a matter of how they download it.
Suzanne: Oh well let's try this one let’s do this one.
Rosemary: That used to be on the corner of uh…
Suzanne: Do you want Christine to read what we do know about it?
Rosemary: It's an Avondale now isn't it right?
Christine: Yes.
Suzanne: Not quite an Avondale, let Christine read it and then we’ll go from there …
Christine: Alright so, Stamford Centre Library. The first library branch opened in Stamford at this location in June of 1957 it was open for four afternoons and three evenings per week with a 3-item borrowing limit in 1962 this branch moved into the town and, and, Country Plaza where it remains today the building still remains now occupied by People's Variety
Suzanne: So you were thinking Avondale, but Variety…
Mark: It was Gold Variety before that.
Suzanne: Right across the street from where we are right?
Mark: Yeah pretty much still there.
Rosemary: It's on the corner of Vine Street.
Margaret: Portage and Vine oh I see, ok I get you.
Suzanne: It has a large parking lot A small little shop with a large parking lot.
Rosemary: It joins the Avondale and this.
Mark: Well, there used to be Gold's on one side and Mac’s Milk on the other, I mean the two changed over the years many times but that's what it was for the longest time.
Cal: What was the previous picture we didn't get to see?
Suzanne: I don't know we'll get back to it if we can we'll see if the computer wants to agree or not if not, we'll pass that one around.
Christine: We can set the paper aside and we can look at them afterwards with the lights on.
Suzanne: The ones we can do on the screen we will … so who remembers going to that, when did it come here ‘67?
Cal: ‘57 she said.
Suzanne: Is that when it opened or is that when it moved here?
Cal: When it opened?
Christine: In ‘62 it moved to where it is now?
Mark: But, actually it didn't it move to there's a building over here that it was originally like Stamford Centre branch was over here and it moved here I think it moved here in the late 70s early 80s it was right there, there, was a building right over here we’re Fine Kettle Fish used to be and a hair salon it was in that building and I remember as a kid going there on Saturdays all the time.
Rosemary: In this too when you went around the back down the stairs was a children's section.
Suzanne: But you had to go through a back.
Rosemary: Yeah cuz you went around down the side of this building round two the parking lot there and there was a you to go in that door and you went downstairs to the children's section.
Suzanne: You remember doing that?
Rosemary: Yep.
Suzanne: Oh, that’s fantastic that's the way as a kid growing up.
Rosemary: ‘Cuz upstairs is the adults.
Suzanne: I thought about churches that way because the Sunday school was always outside and around the back and I always thought that that was like where the kids went and then the grown-ups went in the front door so it was all right so it said it move to the Town & Country Plaza, but not necessarily where.
Mark: We are in the Town & Country Plaza, but there's an if you just over here in a little section between the Stamford Green Plaza and what is it home hardware still there the right where the Home Hardware is there's a building that used to be a fish and chip place they were in there for the longest and then they moved here yeah okay.
Christine: The next photo I think is what you are yeah because so…
Suzanne: Let's see if it comes up.
Mark: Ya ok, there’s the front of this building.
(multiple people talking)
Christine: Yeah ‘cuz the description …
Rosemary: Doesn't look much different does it?
Mark: No.
Christine: The description for this one is - it's kind of borrowing on some of the information we just learned - so in 1953 Stamford Township appointed a library board and in ‘57 a library was opened at Portage and Vine it moved to the Town & Country Plaza a few years later in 1962 when Stamford Township and the City of Niagara Falls merged in 1963 the library became a branch in the city's Library System it moved again to its current plaza location in 1974.
Mark: That makes sense.
Christine: And was enlarged to its current present size in 1986, so yeah.
Suzanne: Do you remember then going to all three you said you remember the first one?
Rosemary: Sure, uh, huh.
Suzanne: That's great very good.
Cal: What's the next one?
Suzanne: Let's have a look.
Christine: The Queen’s Hotel.
Christine: Originally located on River Road the Queens Hotel was built in 1872 by Philip Bender in 1927 A.H Colette purchased the hotel dismantling the building and had it recreated on St Paul Avenue with only minor changes today that building is home to does anybody know?
Rosemary: Ya. it's the Queensway the Coach.
Christine: Yeah that's right the Queens Family Restaurant that's all the information I have so what do you guys know.
Mark: The senior studs at AN Meyer used to go there for drinks after work (laughter) That wasn't me those before me I was too far away but I remember the, the, owner's wife bus or something like that used to bank at CIBC across the street from our house and we used to see her once or twice a week going in there I guess depositing all the funds and they that's what the old style hotels up until I think the 80’s even they had separate entrances they had men's and women's and, and, and, and, women’s and…
Suzanne: Ladies and escorts.
Mark: Ladies and escorts that's right. Two separate entrances…
00:30:00
Suzanne: Fantastic!
Christine: John did you have something to add?
John: Well after the bridge fell down it came down in 1938 and they planned a new bridge which is further down the river and one of the places that that had to be this building was moved from River Road because it was in the way of the relocation for a new bridge.
Suzanne: A new bridge oh that's interesting and that was part of the catalyst for its move.
John: And the other one was you know the terminal for the railroad was there too it was demolished we lost it then no pictures really of inside of that that's really the one we'd like to have photographs of that we have good photos of the outside, but nothing of the inside.
Suzanne: Another common story. Interior shots are hard to find in library and Museum's Collections as a rule everybody thinks to photo document the outside but we don't do very good at photo documenting the insides.
John: Anyway it was a very lovely building down on River Road and they did a great job of moving it up here.
Suzanne: Yeah.
Mark: I'm guessing they moved up to Saint Paul because that was the Highway 8 access into Niagara Falls so it probably got a lot of business from travelers from Toronto's or wherever coming to Niagara and you go right by it.
Margaret: Pre- QEW that was the only road in…
Suzanne: Yeah and that's a big plot of land.
Mark: and I'm guessing they probably had a lot of business traveler’s business?
Cal: What do you think the age of the cars is?
Suzanne: Who in the room knows that?
Margaret: 20’s, 30’s?
Unknown speaker: I'm guessing early 30’s.
Suzanne: I would agree.
Mark: Pre-World War II anyway.
Rosemary: My grandparents on the property next door.
Suzanne: Really?
Rosemary: Sure.
Suzanne: On River Road?
Rosemary: No, this is on St. Paul they owned the cabins and a little store.
Suzanne: Fabulous. What were they called?
Rosemary: Binner and they would get the people as they said that was the only way into Niagara Falls that's the highway in.
Suzanne: And one of the first things then if people are coming in from away…
Rosemary: Sure and plus they owned all the fruit farms behind …
Margaret: That could easily be 1920 by those cars.
Mark: They look - a little gangster cars.
Suzanne: They do look a little gangster.
Christine: Did you say this is the St. Pauls location or the River Road location?
Rosemary: I don't know is it…
Christine: Does anybody recognize?
Suzanne: What year did it say it moved?
Christine: Because it moved what was purchased by the Colette family in ‘27 and then it just says it was dismantled and re-erected, so I don't know exactly what year it moved or …
John: Well that’s the Queen’s Hotel.
Margaret: If you look at the slope of the land can you see where the land is going up on an upward slope you don't find that in that spot right there it's totally flat but you go down to River Road and you will see it sloped up so I still think that's River Road.
(various people): Yep, yes. Ya that’s River Road.
Rosemary: Then my grandparents didn't own the property next door (laughter)
Christine: For the new building yet so this would have to be ‘27 or earlier…
Suzanne: Good, excellent. So what if we got next Laura?
Christine: The Cobblestone Lodge.
Margaret: That's on Highland Avenue.
Mark: Thorold Stone Road isn't it that's two doors down for my grandmother's?
Suzanne: Yep, oh awesome.
Christine: So this photo of Cobblestone Lodge dates back to the mid 1930’s. It was managed by Mrs Harry Gracie as a tourist home among the once-popular highway number 8. Brother James and Mark Murphy now Murphy's music which opened in 1992, so this is pretty much right beside the big Commisso’s Plaza.
Margaret: So this isn't the one on Highland Avenue because there's also one just like that on Highland Avenue.
Rosemary: There's also one like this on York Road.
Mark: Well there is a lot of those houses on we're rooms for tourists because my grandmother did the same thing I think next door to that house there belong to the Cavalry’s at one time none of my grandmother lived would have lived right next to that one I remember that house I remember walking by all the time as a kid.
Suzanne: And that's the one that your grandmother you said in the summer family members rented out rooms?
Mark: Yeah in the summer she rented out rooms to tourists and during the Depression they took borders.
Suzanne: And nobody recognizes it now nnecessarily as Murphy’s Music Studio?
Mark: I remember it I don't, don't, know what it looks like now.
Cal: I have a good friend who lived either there or the next one down his name was Glintz and he had a lot of I think 9 children.
Rosemary: Is this house still standing I can't remember?
Suzanne: I think it is.
Christine: It just says that Murphy's music is there.
Mark: None of them do they have all been redone, recovered.
Margaret: So this is on Portage are you saying?
Rosemary: No Thorold Stone.
Everyone: Thorold Stone.
Christine: It's down from Commisso’s Plaza.
Mark: Just down from the five corners.
Margaret: I don't think it's there anymore though.
Suzanne: Don't you?
Margaret: No.
Suzanne: Maybe not.
Mark: something else is there.
Margaret: If it is there it's so badly it's probably a store or something now they're they would have taken it over.
Suzanne: Yeah, it's a music store.
Rosemary: But the one on York Road has not lost its stone.
Suzanne: Yeah, I know that one because all right drive on that road often and I know exactly the one you're talking about.
Rosemary: Yeah, my uncle owned it.
Suzanne: Did he?
Margaret: There were a lot of buildings along Thorold Stone there that they simply put a structure right over the top of it that didn't follow the pattern or style of what you saw originally and it was cheaper that way it's saved a lot of money on product and those kinds of things.
Mark: Oh God, yeah.
Cal: What's next?
Christine: Anybody recognize it?
Mark: Provincial Engineering?
Margaret: This is… what is that? Is that down in Silvertown? Stamford was it?
Cal: Are you going to read it to us?
Christine: I just wanted to see if anybody could guess what it was first it's Ramapo Ironworks am I saying that right.
Everyone: Ramapo!
Christine: Ramapo Iron Works, dating back to 1906 the Ramapo Ironworks plant supplied all of the major Canadian railroads with their products the Dominion Break Shoe Company acquired the plant and ‘58 and continue to supply break shoes and other railroad equipment today. The location is home to a medical plaza which includes Stamford Pharmacy.
Everyone: What's the address?
Christine: So it is just um, we looked it up its you know when you're coming it's on Portage Road right before Drummond Road connects with Portage Road right beside that little
Margaret: The five corners?
Christine: So just down from five corners.
Mark: I know where the medical center is.
Suzanne: Do you?
Rosemary: Heading where up Drummond or down Thorold Stone.
Mark: no, no, it's down Portage Road.
Christine: It's on Portage so it's on Portage right when you know when Drummond becomes a one-way Street it's right if you want to continue to five quarters it's the crossover that connects Drymen to Portage right there.
Rosemary: Yes, the crossover.
Margaret: Where it comes to a V no it continues north of Portage or south on Drummond.
John: I remember this I knew a lot of guys working there.
Suzanne: At the break company?
Rosemary: It's before the overpass to the hospital that's where it is up Portage isn't it it's there.
Christine: No it's after that it's after that the it's after the hospital I can do I'll show you on Google Maps if you want after I'll give you the cross street just give me a moment.
Suzanne: Well, you said you know where the medical plaza is?
Mark: Yeah, it's, it's, it's, not it's not far from where Paul Foy Pontiac used to be.
Rosemary: Oh, Paul Foy.
John: Yeah that's right.
Suzanne: I was thinking is near that big a is it a Greek restaurant.
(various chatter)
Mark: Yeah, it's just it’s North of that.
Christine: It’s just down from that so the pharmacy that's their the medical center is between Portage and Carroll Avenue now and the closest other street that I can see is Gallenger Street.
Rosemary: Gallenger?
Christine: Gallenger sorry comes in to Portage Road I could show you this little map if you'd like sorry I don't think I was being very clear before so see where the little Stamford pharmacy is that's there that's where this is so this is Portage Road.
Rosemary: So there's the crossover….
Christine: And this is Drummond Road here oops sorry this is the crossover from Drummond over to Portage ‘cuz Portage goes one way to there and if you were to come up this way this is Five Corners there.
(background discussion unclear)
Margaret: So, this is Dr. Jackowich has been located there his wife is still living.
Christine: This is the exact spot where that used to be did you want to see the map or anyone else?
Mark: The Old Trolley is used to go down there.
Christine: Did you want to see the map or anyone else?
Margaret: Because that parcel of land you see it now on the footprint would seem like this building you would see here would need a much larger parcel of land then what that is on that's huge.
Mark: Yeah, yeah, well there's more frontal space in those days and there's nothing behind it.
Rosemary: I don't remember this then.
Mark: No, this is long before my time.
Everyone: Yeah.
Suzanne: But John remembers people that worked at the Brake Company (chatter) – Dominion Break.
Rosemary: See I don't remember this at all…
John: See that's how I remember it being called.
Cal: See this is one of those wonderful manufacturing businesses
00:40:00
Cal: That Niagara Falls lost completely. This used to be a big employer of good mechanical people and paid well good pensions and we’ve transitioned almost entirely to the service industry it seems all of our big businesses like this have gone.
Mark: And one of the reasons for that is one is close to the border and to electricity was really cheap like a lot of businesses located here because of cheap electricity which we all know doesn't exist anymore.
Margaret: That changed in it so our industry changed.
John: Well, I think in my mind in Stamford and Niagara Falls with 25 big companies like this and there's not one of them now and we depend on solely our houses or to pay our taxes all they're doing put up town houses more houses.
Mark: Actually the commercial assessment is a lot worse than it used to be.
Suzanne: All right what next, oh no, not again.
Margaret: That looks like a body of water with something sailing on the top…
Suzanne: I know what this one should have been - Uncle Tom Cabins.
Mark: That’s right across from my Grandmother's place.
Suzanne: A couple people have talked about remembering Uncle Tom's Cabins are what they were with so I can pass this around it's a bit dark can we turn the lights on that is a?
Rosemary: Where was Uncle Tom's Cabins?
Mark: Right on Thorold Stone Road.
Rosemary: Yes that sounds familiar.
(chatter)
Mark: Just up from Cyanamid.
Suzanne: I was going to say didn't it almost sort of overlook the plant sort of…
Cal: Um, no that’s going too far…
Mark: My grandmother's place was here and they were over this big but it was like, again you got all the tourist traffic going in Niagara Falls and wanted a place to stay overnight and their little red they were little red cabins they didn't look like much…
Cal: It's more or less across from that stone house that were looking at. I wonder how long we get away with the name Uncle Tom's now not long eh?
Suzanne: Sorry what?
Cal: How long we get away with the name Uncle Tom's?
Margaret: Well its historic so we don't have to change it so it's not offensive anymore it was to become a story (laughter)
Rosemary: It was well before my time.
Margaret: Uncle and Uncle Tom
Mark: It says it was late 60’s.
Rosemary: Yes, I know but it I just don't remember that...
Suzanne: You don't remember them?
Rosemary: vaguely I was a kid eh?
Mark: Well and by then you had so much competition to they probably required a lot of upkeep I'm guessing to cuz they're all buildings
Margaret: Can we see those others that we couldn't see before?
Christine: These are all the images that you saw up there.
Margaret: Oh okay but there was something here that when its way around.
Rosemary: Yes, we'll see them later.
Margaret: Oh okay.
Mark: Okay let's move on …
Christine: Yeah, we'll try to see if we can continue with the PowerPoint just ‘cause it makes it a bit easier.
Unknown speaker: Can we turn the lights off?
Christine: Alright we’ve got this one up here so does anybody know what this is before I read it
Margaret: Is that Dorchester Road?
Christine: Uhhhh, no I think it’s I think this is on Thorold Stone Road all right?
Rosemary: It's obviously a vacancy.
Mark: It's something Cabins in front of it.
Christine: It’s Swalm’s White Star Did I say, that right?
Everyone: Swalms…
Rosemary: What street??
Christine: Was purchased in 1918 by local businessman Edgar Swalm go along with his wife offered rooms meals and a bath to interested tourists. Now a Jiffy Lube on this site has been owned by Barry Allen's since 1988, so Thorold Stone Road.
Mark: I know exactly where that is.
Rosemary: So Thorold Stone Road and Dorchester heading towards Dorchester.
Mark: I'm sure that house on the left was on the left is my grandmother's.
Rosemary: I don't remember it oh don't you wish you could own it now no.
Suzanne: So, this is just representative of what was happening in those days before we had hotels and industry that we have now this is how people came to the Falls and stayed at tourist homes and small motels.
Margaret: Everybody and their cousin was renting rooms in their house they go and live in the basement or the attic.
Suzanne: Yeah Mark was saying that he remembers his family the father or the grandfather in the summer they’d sleep outside.
Mark: My father and my uncles did because they rented the rooms out.
John: Thorold Stone was Lundy's Lane that's the Highway number 8 right out there's still the occasional one on the way out uptown number 8, but add one time they were bumper to bumper.
Suzanne: Are we going to have luck with the next one Laura?
Laura: My fingers are crossed.
Christine: So this is the Town & Country Plaza. The Town & Country Plaza was founded in ‘55 some of the early tenants were Montgomery's Pharmacy the Canadian Bank of Commerce Stamford Center Library Pennies Bakery and the Brewer retail shown in the photo around 1960. The A & P grocery store was also one of the founding stores the plaza has undergone there is expansions and renovations throughout the years. Today it is home a Global Pet Foods.
Suzanne: So we all know where that is then?
Suzanne: Do we know anybody that works there does anybody know anybody that the amp or one of those shops?
Mark: Oh ya, my neighbour did. Yep.
Rosemary: I used to cut through there from school ‘cause this was a cherry orchard.
Suzanne: Oh yeah?
Mark: And that's before they and the A&P in the mid-seventies redeveloped the whole their whole thing I think they took over Montgomery's I guess Caswell's wasn't in there then the clothing shop they were about 3 doors down I guess that's the beginning because they don't have the other part of the plaza built on yet.
Christine: Yeah it says that this photo is from around 1960 if that helps.
Mark: I think Caswell's may have been in there then …
Margaret: Yeah, I didn't move to Stamford until 1965.
Suzanne: Those don't look like 1960s cars.
Mark: No.
Suzanne: What about the ones on the left of the picture?
Cal: But it was a gorgeous cherry orchard with two wonderful staunches at the front.
Suzanne: Sorry before this was built?
Rosemary: Yep.
Suzanne: Okay so you remember the cherry orchard that was removed from this?
Cal: Thirties and forties and fifties and it was owned by - actually it was called the Canadian Canners at the time and the cherries were go to St David’s to be canned, but it was the most magnificent cherry orchard…
Mark: Yeah you mentioned that when you mention Bright's Wines way early they also had Bright’s Canning that was located not too far from where that old iron place was that we just saw and in the summertime, you could smell the tomatoes like they were processing them it wasn’t always a great smell but and then yeah, Bright’s Canning was there for a long time as well.
Margaret: There were a lot of canning factories, fruits and vegetables in the Stanford area
Mark: And all I’m guessing mostly locally-produced stuff.
Suzanne: And that one in St. David that you're talking about that these cherries were sent to its not a subdivision called The Cannery.
Everyone: Um, hum. Yep. yes.
Rosemary: There’s a Chocolate store there too.
Suzanne: Yeah, Chocolate FX.
Cal: Next.
Suzanne: There we go.
Christine: Let’s hope for Hope’s Restaurant.
Christine: Let’s hope for Hope’s Restaurant (laughter) so Hope’s Restaurant and Tourist Home was a landmark in the busy Stamford Center intersection for more than 40 years this photo was taken in 1930 shortly after the restaurant was built - the site remains in the restaurant in the business today as a busy Tim Hortons location.
Suzanne: So we tried to look this up and I didn't have time to do it where is it where was it?
Mark: It's 5 Corners where the Tim Hortons is now.
Suzanne: Oh, it’s 5 corners!
Rosemary: Where Commisso's Plaza is because Commisso's is right behind it.
Mark: And that restaurant was rebuilt since then because we used to get fish and chips there a lot not from this one but the one they rebuilt and I remember in the sixties in the sixties anyway they would close this thing down in the winter time and go to Florida and they would run it from May to September or something like that …
Margaret: They used to call it Hopies didn't they?
Mark: Well, Hopies they used to call the owner Hopie - it was Hope’s Restaurant.
Suzanne: Do you remember John?
John: Oh yeah, I've eaten there.
Mark: Oh, I’ve eaten there to many times.
John: It was only in summertime as he said it winter time they close down cuz there's no business for a restaurant in the winter time
Mark: Well they used to go to Florida too (laughter)
John: Oh ya.
Rosemary: And right across road on the corner was Ireton’s Drug Store as well.
Cal: Yeah there's an old car on the side, but can anybody read to me what the sign says no what?
Suzanne: No parking on curve.
Mark: Because you're on the busy street there that's Thorold Stone Road going around on to a bridge.
Margaret: The house on the left on the far side there is still there except it's a lot larger it's been added to, but it's built it's a phenomenal house now.
Suzanne: And it butts up against Tim Horton’s.
Margaret: Pretty close, I mean the buildings don't but up but the lot lines would.
Christine: What did you eat there at Hope’s?
Cal: Hamburgers, hamburgers, hamburgers, hamburgers.
Mark: And fish and chips.
John: Oh, and they serve a diner it was a diner you went there to dine.
Mark: Yeah it was a diner they had the stools with the counter and then they had food and I think they had those little things in your booth that you put the diamond and then you press it …
Margaret: A jukebox?
Mark: Well it wasn't a jukebox each table had a thing and you could go through and you can pick one.
00:50:00
Cal: These particular pictures that were used for the 150 anniversary. Are there other copies available or is this the only?
Laura: When you say copies do you mean a print version of it because all of these pictures are from our Digital Collection at the library
Cal: Are there any more of these posters available
Laura: those posters, you know what sure leave your um, name and we can reach out to you we were talking about reproducing them but we haven't really had a lot of requests yet but leave your name with us and we'll reach out to you.
Cal: We have a friend whose mother work there that's why and - actually she met as I remember she met her mother met her father there he was a trucker who stopped over.
Mark: Yeah, I believe it because it was a right Stone Road.
Suzanne: That's exactly the kind of stories afternoons like this are supposed to let us add to the collection!
Margaret: Romance on the roadside.
Cal: I thought you might like to see the picture.
Suzanne: I bet she would.
Laura: Leave your information with us and will reach out to you with it!
Suzanne: Lovely, and if she has any information that she wants to share with the library she should cuz I'm thinking she's got a good story.
Christine: We only have one left so this is Clark’s Tourist Camp.
Suzanne: This one was really early.
Christine: Camping was popular with tourists coming to the Falls in the 1920s as many local residents opened campgrounds on their property as a way to earn extra income. The route along Highway 8 on the way into the city was a particularly popular one. Clark tourist camp scene here in the 1920s was located on the site now occupied by Commisso's Fine Foods.
Rosemary: so it was behind the Hope’s Restaurant is where it is?
Mark: Right next to it.
Everyone: Ya, uh, huh.
Cal: That's an old picture those were old farms.
Margaret: Can you imagine a family staying and one of those little cubby holes?
Suzanne: Not a very big family (laughter)
Cal: I kind of remember it being a lot of fun actually the garage at our house down number 8 highway there was a restaurant it was kind of an ice cream stand still built in the structure that was designed to have the side open and the counters there and it's wired completely for coolers and freezers stoves and lights and it was it sat on the east side of number 8 highway to accommodate people who are driving - just as he said between here and St Catherine's and vice versa, but I'm told by the people that we're here at the time that the traffic was so dense that the cars would stop be stopped because there was so much traffic and the bridge at Homer was problematic, so they would have a captive audience for ice cream burgers and whatever I gather…
Mark: It would be just one lane in those days too.
Suzanne: I guess so! and this is the garage that is on your property still?
Cal: Um, hm.
Suzanne: Fantastic story! Is that out where the tunnel would be is it out that way? Is that what we're talking about?
Cal: Yeah, it's before you get to the tunnel when you're going down to St. David's.
Margaret: Just passed the green…
Suzanne: Yeah like you said at one point you would have had a bridge there.
Cal: Well, the bridge was more at Homer you seem to be pointing towards Thorold.
Suzanne: I was thinking of that yeah.
Cal: No, that's, that's, Lundy’s Lane of Portage Road going out numbered Highway turned at Hope and then went South, I'm sorry went North towards Saint David.
Suzanne: Toward St. David's.
Mark: And then there was it did go through there was a tunnel there. At one time. A small tunnel which they rejigged the road back…
Cal: At the bottom towards...
Margaret: They never did used to honk the horn...my father would…
(multiple speakers, unclear)
Rosemary: Wasn’t that called Sand Plant Hill? Or was that the Queen E?
Cal: No Sand Plant Hill is now the QEW.
Rosemary: The Queen E hill…
John: We called that at one-time - Sand Plant Hill as well, because there was a sand plant …
Mark: Well there was a sand plant - It's where the Sanders used to pick up their sand for the roads
John: Sand Plant Hill in the 50s.
Cal: I used to work at Sand Plant Hill.
Margaret: Before that it was an ossuary for the Native Indians.
Cal: That’s the sand plant.
Mark: We used to call that the sand camp (laughter)
John: He’s splitting hairs with me, I just no we called it Sand Plant as well.
Mark: All right well very good.
Margaret: Well out of that corner the Simcoes lived there in the summer to get out of Niagara on the Lake because it's so humid.
Cal: And it was then occupied by the, the, lieutenant governor not Simcoe the next...I’ve forgotten.
Rosemary: You don't have any pictures of the stores at Stamford Centre?
Suzanne: I'm sure the library does the library has thousands of images and their Digital Collection so there's a couple left coming up we can just pass those around if you want…
Christine: This one was the one that we looked at in only the very of the top of the photo was visible so it's the Morrison Street Bridge.
Christine: Niagara Falls needed another road to run east west since Lundy's Lane was operating near capacity the planners decided to extend Morrison Street to the bridge over the Hydro Canal the nearby Portage Road Canal Bridge was deteriorating Portage Road was real lines to avoid crossing the canal and it's Bridge demolished Mullen Garden Market which backs on to the hydro canal is just west of the Morrison Street Bridge - so I'll pass that one around and if anybody has any comments…
Mark: I know they closed it because of traffic but there was a pedestrian walk over that is that gone now.
John: Oh ya, the whole thing, everything is gone.
Mark: No no, I remember when they close the bridge but they left part of it open just for foot traffic because I know they rejigged the whole thing you had to into a …
Suzanne: Because Portage there was that dog thing now …
John: And I will all we have is we line up like crazy on Drummond Road now.
Mark: No I hear you well I used to come down that road and over the railway Bridge which is gone now over by that area…
Rosemary: They used to call Portage Road north and south and a trucker I used to live in Portage North and he stopped me and says do you know where the hell this address is and I go yeah, I do but you've got to go to Stamford Centre make a jog over to Portage South that's what you want so why don't you people think in straight lines? I don't know I didn't have anything to do with it and this road system!
Margaret: I always thought it was a stupid idea because number one it would have been cheaper to build a very short bridge because the canals very narrow and yes that bridge was deteriorating but it was not being kept up it was allowed to go to rack and ruin and all they had to do is build a new one they didn't have to break tear out all those houses and re-shift the road and create that dog's leg which is such a bloody nuisance - it just makes you want to shake your head sometime what some of these people do you know it's like sit down and really think about it it's still a nuisance!
Cal: It is it's the strangest engineering decision that I've ever seen.
Margaret: There's no engineering in it it's just guesswork.
Cal: I've been all over the world and I say to myself this is Niagara Falls….
(laughter)
Mark: Every city got their own unique little thing …
Rosemary: Well, like my friend came out from Edmonton and she says you know Rosemary you guys do this in Niagara Falls you go here you got to turn there you got to turn there to catch that road she says Edmonton is…..
Mark: On a grid.
Rosemary: It’s on a grid.
Margaret: Isn't Edmonton flat?
(various chatter, unclear)
Mark: So once you go you can't just turn around and come back you have to go around to…
John: But Hydro aren't blaming the city they're only elected for 3 or 5 years or whatever and that's all they want to consider until we get through this and then let somebody else worry about it but then afterwards then they close the bridge and then take it down.
Margaret: It just doesn't make any sense even though they're only elected for four years at a time if they use common sense they've got a plan long term.
(side conversations)
Mark: I know they did build a trail but I never been on it.
Rosemary: The Millennium Trail.
Suzanne: I take that dog leg home every night, I know it well but I can't remember your question if whether they're still is a foot bridge or not?
Mark: No I think it's probably gone to.
John: No, no original foot bridge.
Suzanne: No.
Mark: Because when they close the bridge to vehicle traffic they left a sidewalk open for a while.
Cal: Did you have another picture we didn't see?
Margaret: I remember Brian Merritt was the regional chair at that time and he was one of the people that was campaigning to try to put aside this dog leg plan and just build a new bridge and he was unfortunately not listened to.
John: No, he’s dead now.
Margaret: It's too late now isn't it?
John: By the way I wanted to say when the people were saying how could you be in these little cabins in the 1950s we went in and every place we were what in New Brunswick was…
Suzanne: I know but that's right before we had hotels chains and people were really getting cars for the first time right and it wasn't until after World War II that we all started to drive everywhere.
(multiple side conversations, unclear)
John: I mean the home for like wartime houses up there that's what my wife keeps saying…
Cal: Can we change the subject?
Suzanne: Sure!
01:00:00
Rosemary: It wouldn’t, because Stamford Centre is the five corners and across from Hope’s Restaurant and Ireton’s Drug store ... no, this is Portage.
Mark: Would Thorold Stone Road be around here?
Rosemary: No, this is Portage.
Mark: It’s Portage but where on Portage?
(multiple conversations)
Cal: We are interested in the history of a particular house or particular site in Stamford - These people would know about it because they know the area because you know Stamford Village right?
Margaret: Of course, I was Village chair for years
Cal: At any rate this property was…
Rosemary: Ok, you know where the Hope’s Restaurant was on this corner? Across the road was Ireton’s Drug Store on this corner, then there was the Red and White … yes, the meat market, Paul’s Meat Market and then next door was Williams Shoe Repair and then there were next door.
Mark: Ok, I know where that is because something used to be a restaurant there which is now the Scotia Bank and, and, and I remember the shoe maker died.
Rosemary: Yes, that’s where it is?
Mark: Back in the 60’s he had a heart attack and died so that place closed.
Rosemary: Mr. Williams.
Mark: And there was a barber shop there and there was a butcher shop there.
Rosemary: Yes, that was my uncles.
Mark: The butcher shop.
Rosemary: Yep, Paul’s Meat Market.
Mark: I remember it as a kid going in there because they had sawdust on the floor.
Rosemary: Floor! I used to love that!
(multiple conversations, unclear)
Cal: The property was talking about is a corner of Stamford Green Drive and Saint George and it includes the Prest property…
Rosemary: Yes that's right there.
Cal: And you go back up Stanford Green Drive to oh I can't remember what the cross street is and the property pretty much went over to Russell but not entirely and in the middle of this Prest Property there is a substantial mansion that has been for sale for the last few months.
Rosemary: Yes used to be the old Gold home right?
Cal: This is the gold representative here and what we're trying to find out is the old history the reported history shows it as 1872 but the general understanding was perhaps as far back as 1812 because the church is as you know the Presbyterian Church was used briefly as a hospital or a holding place and this house had some activity of the same nature although we can't really verify it and I'm asking to see if anybody might know about that property.
Suzanne: Does anybody know about that property?
Mark: Does the library have a special….?
Laura: We certainly can look up the directories and addresses that way.
Mark: That's where I would start.
Laura: And again give me your contact information and I'll have a talk with our local history librarian and reach out to you and we can do some searches and see what we have in our files I can't guarantee we do but we have a lot of stuff in our files.
Suzanne: Do you know the exact address it is now?
Cal: 68? I can’t remember about this now…
Janet: It was 707 an added to it and it change the address.
Laura: The address has changed twice once in the twenties and once in the late 60s so we can track that jump along that with our directories.
Mark: Yes that’s right because we lived at 51 Drummond became 4051 Drummond.
Laura: So certainly give me your information and will put you in touch with Cathy Roy and she's our local history library and we can see what we can find
Cal: Yes, I should report to you guys at least because some of you know Cyanamid I worked with Cathy on the Cyanamid records I had tried pulling the nature of the company history records that is agreement contracts engineering Chemistry and so forth without a lot of success, but I did give her a box of information with respect to the written history of the processes and chemistry that we used and she has quite a large amount of pictures related to the swimming pool which you all know…
Everyone: Yeah. ya.
Mark: Ya, everybody would swim there.
Cal: And a fair amount on the era and the plant itself, but not a great deal.
Mark: Did you work there?
Rosemary: My grandfather did.
Cal: Yes.
Mark: I understand that they made chemicals for agent orange there?
Cal: What's that?
Mark: I understand that they made chemicals for agent orange there?
Cal: No. We didn't that was much later and that was … on the other side of the river.
Mark: ‘Cause I heard that not agent orange itself but a chemical in it that went into it that they used in Vietnam.
Cal: No I can almost assure you that that's not the case.
Rosemary: What did Cyanamid make?
Cal: Cyanamid made a product called Cyanamide with an E on the end and Cyanamid is a Composition of carbon and Limestone and…
Rosemary: What did they use it for?
Cal: And they fused it together and they impregnated it with nitrogen you remember the old liquid air plant right on Stanley a lot of windows and the liquid oxygen and liquid nitrogen comes from separation under pressure and a nitrogen is impregnated in to this composition of cope and limestone and that’s Cyanamid’s first nitrogen bearing commercial fertilizer.
Rosemary: That's what I was going to say didn't they make fertilizer!
Margaret: That's what I thought you might be leading to …
Mark: But nitrogen is the active ingredient in fertilizer is it not?
Cal: Yeah that's right!
Margaret: My husband was Bob Reed son of the ant I spoke of he was an engineer there for all his life.
Cal: I remember Bob.
Margaret: You know Bob – red-headed?
Cal: I used to work at the plant.
Rosemary: My grandfather did too.
Margaret: He would be considerably older than you Cal I’m sure.
Cal: Everybody is (laughter) at any rate.
Margaret: Because he's a lot older than me.
Cal: There is a fair record of Cyanamid under Cathy's position now at the downtown Centre here if anybody's interested and certainly some appropriate pictures too.
Suzanne: We did when we did the 150 at the Victoria Street Library and we did this session a couple of months ago that's when we brought these pictures.
Cal: You have pictures of these down at the arena?
Laura: At the Gale Center they have a very large one there.
Cal: Which has a big large picture of the old Cyanamid plant …
Suzanne: And we talked about it at the Victoria session and we talked about what people remembered mostly about the pool how everybody remembers swimming in the pool…
Cal: Everybody is fascinated by the…
Rosemary: I remember swimming there.
Margaret: And I was 5 years old when I got my first swimming certificate there cuz I grew up just a block away.
Rosemary: It was pee green it was pee green that pool and the first week I swam there I got sick.
Suzanne: That was one of the questions that was where people concerned about a swimming pool beside a chemical plant…
Everybody: Not in those days.
Suzanne: Never dawned on anyone…. that they ever did was create that pool.
Cal: That was the best public relations activity that they ever did it was run solely under the direction of the manager of the plant.
Suzanne: Was it?
Cal: I mean the rest of the corporation wouldn't support it at all but he said that was a cooling pond and we are going to swim in it.
John: And so many people came from across the river because and they'd say where you are going and they say we're going to Cyanamid swimming - that's all you had to say you know either way I'm going shopping etcetera and they wave you through but there's nothing on the other side.
Cal: A lot of little things happen from we had to hire nurses where to hire lifeguards and my associate here Janet got addicted to the french fries that were what was that guy's name…
Suzanne: The chip truck…
Janet: Jake.
Rosemary: Yeah, the Jake truck!
Margaret: He’d have the best fries in town!
(laughter)
Cal: That's what everybody says, I find that amusing!
Margaret: And during the week he was downtown beside the theatre and we'd all save our pennies up and after we've been to the show we’d had to have our cone of fries
Mark: Yeah cuz they came in cones!
Rosemary: Well I’m going to go.
Mark: I’m going too.
Margaret: It wasn't called Jake's in those days the son-in-law name was Jake and of course the old man passed away and left it over to the family the son-in-law and daughter who used to run it so…
Mark: We should do this again so we can get more Stamford Centre pictures and I'd come back to this I really enjoyed it.
Rosemary: Yeah, I'm surprised you didn't have a picture of the old Bank in the middle of the V there's the drug store Paul's Meat Market the Red and White there all in one row…
Suzanne: I think it was probably a hard choice for the people in the library because like I said the library's digital photo collection is pretty vast
Laura: You have no idea how long we've been doing this…
Suzanne: And I was pretty certain after having done similar things that an hour is really where you should end that.
Mark: They've got some really, they've got some really old awesome, awesome, photo of Stamford Lions Club at the old CIBC building which was a wooden building before they built the brick building which is now a Hakim Optical it's in that little green there and pictures of, of, Hope’s and a few other things like really from…
Cal: Janet's got pictures of that and she's also got pictures bold buildings on St Patrick Street.
Rosemary: And the old Red and White store you go in off the sidewalk you go up five steps you open the door and you go up another six steps into the right and white store and it has those creaky wooden floors I loved it!
Mark: That was...
Suzanne: Where was it?
Rosemary: Right there at Stamford Centre.
Mark: Where the Scotiabank Plaza is…
Rosemary: And Ireton’s drug store was next door and Paul's Meat Market the barbershop the Shoemaker Mr. Williams I used to love the smell of glue in there I used to love it. I love it!
Mark: The shoe store …
Margaret: I used to get high on that.
(laughter)
Suzanne: That's very telling statement.
Rosemary: And my grandparents live right next door to the shoe repair.
Suzanne: Did they?
Margaret: I'm wondering it makes me now they're having this discussion because I think that the value that you have in photography in any Community is just priceless and I'm sure that there's an awful lot of amateur stuff that you took on your own or family took or things like that and is there any way or is it worthwhile to put out and appeal of some kind that would be totally bombarded for people to submit copies of some of their work.
01:10:00
Suzanne: I think at the library because the library will take a copy myself at the Museum only take originals
Margaret: What museum are you from?
Suzanne: We are at the History Museum the Niagara Falls History Museum
Rosemary: Up there?
Suzanne: But this is the libraries project and it's the libraries project and it should be because you guys have a better photo collection than the museum and you take copies so if somebody says I don't want to give you this but you're more than welcome to copy it and they add it to the collection that's something we don't do at the Museum so the library does exactly that.
Margaret: Oh you do because I often wonder that cuz I keep I keep people keep talking to me and they're asking me questions gee I'm looking for a picture of Market Street school before they tore it down the old one and just all kinds of things that we would all remember growing up here and I always say go to the library and they say it was somebody's got pictures of those things because it is community people were shutterbugs in the days when it was a little brownie camera or one of those things that was on a cord that my father had when I was a little girl and people will they cherish their photographs and they pass them on down generations
Rosemary: I brought the house at Stamford Centre right next door to the shoe repair my grandparents my grandparents sold eggs there.
Cal: What did you say?
Rosemary: Shoe repair. Mr. Williams shoe repair and this is the old house next door look at the size of that sucker.
Margaret: What was the address of that place?
Rosemary: 57 Portage Road and, and, there's the big house next door there's my grandmother shoveling the snow and there's William shoe repair at Stamford centre
Mark: Oh I remember that!
Laura: The library's Digital Collection is on line you can keyword search a lot of it so it's on our website or anyone could help you with that its keyword searchable for all of the images that we have catalogued so far I can't begin to tell you that we have how many we have that we have not yet catalog that collection is growing day by day where adding things to it even if we didn't have it at one point we might have it or I know the schools we have vertical files for the schools and the school board is also a really good resource for archives on the schools
Margaret: Good.
Laura: We are constantly adding to it and we - please bring in and share with us!
Rosemary: This is my grandparents it's the red apartment building next door to the Brighton.
Mark: Yep. I know where that is I remember when that red apartment building went up it was like the biggest tallest building in Stamford centre for the longest time…
Rosemary: Yep, what a sad thing my grandparents and my grandmother sold.
Laura: I'd like to thank everyone for coming.
Suzanne: Yeah thanks everyone!
Everyone: Okay.
(clapping)
Laura: And thank you to our hosts from the museum Suzanne and Christine they were wonderful!
Mark: Thank you.
01:13:03